I'm thinking out loud here because I've never setup a R&P in the Merkur diff. But, to remove the pinion you simply remove the pinion nut. You should be able to set preload of the pinion bearing without even having the diff in the case. When I did this before it was on the 8.8 solid axle in my Mustang. Used an inch pound gauge style torque wrench. I used the breaker bar to tighten it down, then check it with torque wrench and set to the minimum torque, check turning torque with the inch pound torque wrench, did this until I was within spec for new bearings, because there is a difference between new bearings and old bearings. I got that number and I was set.
I agree completely, I overthink things a lot, do a lot of thinking, walking around in circles debating in my mind about how to get it perfect on the first try that I never really get much done. In the end, it worked out find and I have no noise with new bearing, new R&P, new posi, etc....
It should be very close to the same with the XR carrier, its easier to work with at times because its just the case with R&P and diff in it, no axles tubes.
Awesome. A new noise!
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thesameguy
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
I didn't look up the specs for the pinion bearing as it wasn't removed... but there definitely aren't specs for the carrier bearings, just three steps:
1. Screw adjusters til they carriers "lightly contact the bearings"
2. Check backlash
3. Screw adjusters in equal amounts until backlash is correct
4. Screw right adjuster 4-5 more teeth
That's the sum total of the FSM.
It seems really insistent I will feel the carriers contact the bearings, but I can't say that's true. Even a little.
1. Screw adjusters til they carriers "lightly contact the bearings"
2. Check backlash
3. Screw adjusters in equal amounts until backlash is correct
4. Screw right adjuster 4-5 more teeth
That's the sum total of the FSM.
It seems really insistent I will feel the carriers contact the bearings, but I can't say that's true. Even a little.
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thesameguy
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
I took the thing apart again, this time to follow the FSM procedure.
I backed off the adjusters til the valleys of the teeth were flush with the housing, then marked one tooth on each side. I turned each adjuster 5 teeth at a time (1/4 turn) until the carrier stopped rocking around between the cones, which indicated to me full contact had been made.
In this state, I was unable to get a good backlash reading. There was still slop between bearings and cones, which meant even a tiny amount of force on the ring gear rocked the carrier around and led to inconsistent backlash readings.
I continued tightening the side adjusters a couple teeth a time til I got a good click-click .0005" backlash reading. In total, this represented another 8 teeth or so, about half a turn past "bearings touching cones."
I then added the recommended 4 teeth in on the right side to set preload. That resulted significant binding - but I couldn't tell whether it was due to backlash or preload. I backed off the left adjuster 1 tooth, and turned in the right adjuster 1 tooth and that got me right back to .0045" backlash.
However, one thing I notice in this state is that there is definitely more preload on the bearings. In my first pass, the ring gear was pretty easy to spin.... it would move easily with a finger. Now, it takes a little effort to spin it - definitely have to grip it to move it.
I'm not sure where in this spectrum I need to be. I have no reference point, and there is no empirical measurement to apply.
I ordered some gear marking compound so it's not ready to go in the car yet. I will do this whole thing one more time when the compound arrives and see where I get.
I backed off the adjusters til the valleys of the teeth were flush with the housing, then marked one tooth on each side. I turned each adjuster 5 teeth at a time (1/4 turn) until the carrier stopped rocking around between the cones, which indicated to me full contact had been made.
In this state, I was unable to get a good backlash reading. There was still slop between bearings and cones, which meant even a tiny amount of force on the ring gear rocked the carrier around and led to inconsistent backlash readings.
I continued tightening the side adjusters a couple teeth a time til I got a good click-click .0005" backlash reading. In total, this represented another 8 teeth or so, about half a turn past "bearings touching cones."
I then added the recommended 4 teeth in on the right side to set preload. That resulted significant binding - but I couldn't tell whether it was due to backlash or preload. I backed off the left adjuster 1 tooth, and turned in the right adjuster 1 tooth and that got me right back to .0045" backlash.
However, one thing I notice in this state is that there is definitely more preload on the bearings. In my first pass, the ring gear was pretty easy to spin.... it would move easily with a finger. Now, it takes a little effort to spin it - definitely have to grip it to move it.
I'm not sure where in this spectrum I need to be. I have no reference point, and there is no empirical measurement to apply.
I ordered some gear marking compound so it's not ready to go in the car yet. I will do this whole thing one more time when the compound arrives and see where I get.
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thesameguy
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
I redid it one more time this morning, and had virtually the same experience as last time. My takeaway is that the factory manual has the best approach. I:
1. Tightened the adjusters down in 5-tooth increments until the diff was supported and not wobbling around
2. Added 6 teeth (2 teeth at a time) on both sides to get a firm hold
3. That yielded .0005" backlash
4. Added 4 teeth on the right side for preload
5. That yielded .0035 backlash
6. Backed off left side and increased right side 1/2 tooth a time til I was at .005" - that ended up being 2 teeth
Ring gear moves as it did before - a little effort to spin in, and giving it a good shove it will continue to spin a few teeth before stopping... so it's tight but not binding.
I tested with marking compound before this pass and after, and got identical results:
Seems about right - contact is about halfway between root and crown, with load closer to the toe than heel, but spread nicely across the surface.
Being me, I'm gonna think about it for another day, but plan is to install it tomorrow.
1. Tightened the adjusters down in 5-tooth increments until the diff was supported and not wobbling around
2. Added 6 teeth (2 teeth at a time) on both sides to get a firm hold
3. That yielded .0005" backlash
4. Added 4 teeth on the right side for preload
5. That yielded .0035 backlash
6. Backed off left side and increased right side 1/2 tooth a time til I was at .005" - that ended up being 2 teeth
Ring gear moves as it did before - a little effort to spin in, and giving it a good shove it will continue to spin a few teeth before stopping... so it's tight but not binding.
I tested with marking compound before this pass and after, and got identical results:
Seems about right - contact is about halfway between root and crown, with load closer to the toe than heel, but spread nicely across the surface.
Being me, I'm gonna think about it for another day, but plan is to install it tomorrow.
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thesameguy
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
This project is happening, but happening VERY slowly.
A month or so ago I bought a new late'/long input shaft and steel retainer from AMP Distributing:
https://ampdistributing.com/collections ... ansmission
It seemed like a good option, with lots of positive feedback on these guys. I took the input shaft straight over to a local machine shop to have the nose ground down to 4 cyl specs and finally got it back....
(shown with a 4cyl pilot bearing...)
Next step is actually sourcing a '94+ "long input shaft" T5 and then putting that in the car. Conservative estimate: End of September. lol?
A month or so ago I bought a new late'/long input shaft and steel retainer from AMP Distributing:
https://ampdistributing.com/collections ... ansmission
It seemed like a good option, with lots of positive feedback on these guys. I took the input shaft straight over to a local machine shop to have the nose ground down to 4 cyl specs and finally got it back....
(shown with a 4cyl pilot bearing...)
Next step is actually sourcing a '94+ "long input shaft" T5 and then putting that in the car. Conservative estimate: End of September. lol?
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john keefe
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
Sameguy... You don't need to source a specific "long input shaft" T5, unless maybe you're shooting for one of the "aftermarket" (Saleen, FMS track version, etc.) FMS T5s with specific gear ratios. The longer input shaft you have just swaps right in. I needed it because I shoved the T5 back to fit better in the stock shift surround, and had to make-up the 3/4-1".
You will need the later, longer steel tube T/O retainer; the AL gets galled in no time anyway. If I can find the part number, I'll post it. And, now that I looked it up, opt for the Hanlon 5th gear competition retainer.
You will need the later, longer steel tube T/O retainer; the AL gets galled in no time anyway. If I can find the part number, I'll post it. And, now that I looked it up, opt for the Hanlon 5th gear competition retainer.
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thesameguy
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
I'm not following... This is a factory stock part for a '94+ transmission turned down to accommodate the 2.3 pilot bearing. Nothing more.
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john keefe
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
Sorry, now I'm a little confused... You wrote that you had to source a '94+ "long input shaft" T5, but I don't think you need to unless you're looking for one with specific 2.3L gearing. Any '85-'92 5.0L WC T5 non-Cobra would work if you have the correct bell housing, because the input shafts' teeth (23), pitch, etc. are the same, just 3/4" longer shaft.
If you could put up with a little lazy take-up in 1st gear, I actually think the 5.0L gearing is a lot more comfortable around town, and the overall gearing/steps are a lot smoother. The SVO and TBird TC's probably needed the 4.03 1st because of overall weight (and to compensate for off-the-line lag), but the 3.50 in earlier SVO's is pretty close to the 3.35 in most 5.0L apps anyway. Even the RSCosworth had the 5.0L's 2.95 1st gear and same 2-4, only the OD was different.
I don't know of any specific changes to 5.0L's rear main, pilot bearing, or bell housings to accommodate the longer shaft, but they started using the T5 in some of the V6's, and the previous ones don't have a V6 application (1352-085-052 for the longer, 1352--085-025 for the earlier). Can't use the Cobra version because it had a tapered pocket bearing, which was later redesigned to 24 teeth.
Going by memory here, but IIRC the steel input shaft http://cart.hanlonmotorsports.com/treme ... retainer-2 IIRC was slightly longer than the old stock AL I replaced, but not by the 3/4" difference in long-vs-short inputs. I've not seen any used T5's with the stock AL T/O retainer which weren't galled up badly, so if I rebuild another I'll make sure it has the steel tube version.
If you could put up with a little lazy take-up in 1st gear, I actually think the 5.0L gearing is a lot more comfortable around town, and the overall gearing/steps are a lot smoother. The SVO and TBird TC's probably needed the 4.03 1st because of overall weight (and to compensate for off-the-line lag), but the 3.50 in earlier SVO's is pretty close to the 3.35 in most 5.0L apps anyway. Even the RSCosworth had the 5.0L's 2.95 1st gear and same 2-4, only the OD was different.
I don't know of any specific changes to 5.0L's rear main, pilot bearing, or bell housings to accommodate the longer shaft, but they started using the T5 in some of the V6's, and the previous ones don't have a V6 application (1352-085-052 for the longer, 1352--085-025 for the earlier). Can't use the Cobra version because it had a tapered pocket bearing, which was later redesigned to 24 teeth.
Going by memory here, but IIRC the steel input shaft http://cart.hanlonmotorsports.com/treme ... retainer-2 IIRC was slightly longer than the old stock AL I replaced, but not by the 3/4" difference in long-vs-short inputs. I've not seen any used T5's with the stock AL T/O retainer which weren't galled up badly, so if I rebuild another I'll make sure it has the steel tube version.
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thesameguy
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
I see what you're saying.... I am specifically looking for the '94+ V6 gear ratios, and might as well get the newest box I can find. I was even thinking about an S197 gearbox and just converting to an electrically driven speedo, but I just don't want to add that project to this, even if long term that's what I plan to do. 
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john keefe
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
Both the SVO and TBird TC had 3.45 diff ratios, which is shorter, but pretty close to the XR's 3.36 automatic (2.7% delta). The SVO weighed roughly 90lbs more, the TC about 170 lbs more than the XR. If you've got the 3.64 diff, that's a 5.5% difference in "shorter" in the other direction, and in my mind, another reason to look for V8 ratios for a car that weighs less.
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john keefe
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
Sorry, saw that after you posted (above). Anyway, can't hurt to have all the info you can, right? 
Did I post the reference table for all the T5 ratios? If not, I'll link it so you can check out the differences. One good thing about the V6 T5's... high school brats weren't blowing them up one after the other. Around here, there were so many Mustangs with blown T5's, and replaced with new or rebuilds, that finding even a used T5 that almost impossible for a few years.
Must have been for another thread, but here's a listing of the various BWT5 tags, and gearing: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg- ... D-Tags.htm
Did I post the reference table for all the T5 ratios? If not, I'll link it so you can check out the differences. One good thing about the V6 T5's... high school brats weren't blowing them up one after the other. Around here, there were so many Mustangs with blown T5's, and replaced with new or rebuilds, that finding even a used T5 that almost impossible for a few years.
Must have been for another thread, but here's a listing of the various BWT5 tags, and gearing: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg- ... D-Tags.htm
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thesameguy
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
Yeah, there are exactly no older T5s around here, and haven't been for years. The only option aside from buying a "new" transmission from Tremec etc. is the '94+ option. That realization is what lead me to build the LSD, because a V6 transmission on top of the automatic rear end I was running wasn't going to be good. So now it's V6 ratios, short/manual rear end, LSD, and moving the shifter back 11/16". Not a bad "package" but a lot of work/expense.
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john keefe
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
SameGuy... Just found this, check craigslist down here (SF Bay Area, South Bay). Found a nice one here: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/pts/d/ ... 47858.html Tag number is for a 2.95 1st.
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thesameguy
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
Yeah, but thing is I can buy a "reman" transmission from Summit for $1100 or a new Ford transmission for $2000 with a warranty... I don't have the courage to give someone on CL $1000 and hope he's not lying. My plan is $300 to the local Ford dismantlers for a used box, and when it's done give a local race shop $800 to go through it and know it's done. If I can get five years from a $300 transmission I'll be happy - I got 13 years out of the $50 TurboCoupe transmission that's in the car now!
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john keefe
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Re: Awesome. A new noise!
Scary leap of faith dealing with CL. At least you're up in SAC; seems there's lots of dismantlers up there, if ads for auto parts on CL are any indication. Just hate seeing the pics of some of those wrecks those guys have no qualms posting in their ads. Makes you appreciate things, but not what I want to see when I'm browsing for parts.