Rear Windows

[john keefe]

Just went through this with rear passenger window not working. After chasing all the connections, grounds, swapping switches, etc., and verifying that there was good voltage to the motor's connector from the switch(es), I applied 12V from a 110/120V adapter directly to the motor... no change. I hooked it up right from the car battery, worked fine with a little effort (must be the cranking amps which made a difference against a large amp draw). Reconnected to the circuit, worked OK, buttoned the door back up, but failed to work the next day.

So, bit the bullet and pulled the motor/track assembly. Used a glass suction cup to hold the window up in place. Thought it was going to be a more major PITA than it was, just time-consuming. That "long-life" grease was like sticky clay, even under the pinion gear that rotates the regulator track. Took the motor off the track and tested again (worked, but labored), so the first thing I did was to take it apart and clean up the carbon brushes, the armature stack, the commutator bar w/ 600grit, and the grooves with an exacto knife. Worked perfect. Easy, like maintaining a slot car, or HO car if you ever had those as a kid.

Next was cleaning up all the old clay-grease under the gear and along the track. Though I pretty much only wiped it most of it off with a terry cloth, but more meticulously around the motor's gear. Re-greased moderately with good bearing grease and a race-spec Amsoil grease (no silicone or teflon). Figured the old grease wasn't dirty, just hardened, so the two would mix well under use and I'd maintain some of the old grease's spec'd properties. Reassembled it in the door, tested it, though a little loud, but that settled down by the next day. Works fine and quietly now. Now, maybe onto the slow front-passenger window one of these days.

[Ed Lijewski]

Huh: maybe I'll take the plunge...

https://youtube.com/shorts/4fuwRigzz14?feature=share

YMMV

[brokencase]

I'm not up for the teardown yet. I'll stick with my LION drill battery approach for now.
12v external won't work John, you have to hit it with higher volts/amps to break it free. Hence the 18v lion battery.

Once it is broken free and you work it back and forth for a bit it generally lasts a while.
Also If you can get into the habit of working the window every time you get in the car it will help to maintain it.

I am curious as to how long yours will last after the full workover you have performed.

[PeterP11c]

I have a question for John: You mentioned removing door motor a while supporting the glass with suction cups. Did you drill out the rivets attaching the motor to the sheet metal? Second, how difficult it was to swap the motors?

Peter

[Ed Lijewski]

BTW, I also applied the conductive grease to fuse 24 contacts in the fuse box. Be advised fuse 24 is not one of the typical plastic fuses. It is in a metallic can located next to the relays.

That (24) is a circuit breaker, not a fuse.

The front power seats circuit also incorporates a circuit breaker, found in the auxiliary fuse/relay panel in the drop down door in the glove box.

YMMV

[zxr250cc]

Hi all,

When you get into the gearbox on window motors the best solution is to remove all of the grease or as much as you can. Some kinds of grease react to others and make a real mess of things in the system in use. My long term favorite grease has been Ford spec which is like Valvoline grease with moly in it. It is black and stains anything you get it on but it is good long term and will probably outlast any usage by any of us.

Oh, one more thing, don't completely fill the space just mostly, so the grease can move around with the gears in motion.

Just a thought and hopefully helpful..

Cheers

[brokencase]

I'll see your moly grease and raise ya..

Within the past few years I have stumbled upon John Deere's Corn Head Lube. It comes in normal grease gun cartridges and is not very expensive.

The nice thing about it is that it is thinner than typical conventional grease.

Normal grease has the consistency of soft peanut butter, whereas JD Corn head lube is more like mustard.

So basically it "flows", and I believe that for many applications this is better than having a grease that gets pushed aside and then stays aside.

I think this may be a better grease for the window motor gear box application.

Anyhow, just thought i would mention it. Next time you drive by your local JD dealer pick up a tube.

[zxr250cc]

Hi all,

Looks like it could be good grease for use in a window motor. JD make good stuff; shame about their attitude for 'right to repair' for their customers...

https://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Dee ... 02562.html

Your mention of mustard is shown here: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nlgi-no-0-grease


Cheers

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

That corn head grease is actually for harvesting corn. The corn head (machine) has gears in it and uses that thinner green grease. Probably work great though in the gears for power windows. I went to Tractor Supply Co to buy tubes of the red tacky grease and they were sold out of it along with the plain lithium grease and the boat trailer grease. Is their a shortage of grease for some reason? I was able to find some at Home Depot but it was twice as much as I remember it being. Whenever I put a new tube in the grease gun there's always a small amount left over in the old tube. So I save it in a jar. I used that jar the last time I had a Merkur door apart to lube the door regulator teeth and rails. The only problems I can imagine would be dust and dirt sticking to the grease or it being too thick in very cold weather. It sure works smoother than the 30 year old grease that was in there.

[Ed Lijewski]

Doan know 'bout dat deer greese pan-a-see-a...

IME the only thing I've observed with Scorpio window gears and regulators working slow is if/when there's something impeding them from normal pace on raising windows, e.g. binding in a channel either dirty or deformed or needing a spritz of silicone spray. That can be remedied once it's identified.

Again IME (two Scorpios) non-activating or reluctant or capricious-starting rear windows, the typical ssue, do move apace up/down and repeat repeat repeat at observed normal speed, and without any sound/noise other than the spinng motor.

So IMO however/wherever one greases likely doesn't address the original issue of rear windows: voltage/amperage to them through the OE harness and switches sometimes is insufficient to start the motors. We don't yet know why that occurs in all cases. (In the past I swapped window switches from front to rear windows without changes in rear window operation. I intend to look again and further into the harness for a reason why this is, someday...).

YMMV

[brokencase]

Agree Ed, the grease is not the root cause. But I'll bet after 35 years the grease inside the unit's gear box is probably not in the best shape. So if someone is going to the trouble of tearing the motor unit down then it makes sense to re-lube the gears.

I'll reiterate that I believe moisture getting into the door creates a high humidity environment around the motor and this causes the brushes/commutator to oxidize. This, combined with reduced current through the long run of wire to the rear doors (and through several connectors/switches), results in the frozen, no start state. As I indicated earlier, "jumping" the motors directly at the door with the 18v drill lion battery gets them moving again. Thereafter, you just have keep working them occasionally in order to maintain them in a working condition. If you leave them sit for a long time you will have to repeat the procedure.

If I were tearing down the motor unit I would clean the commutator and I would also see if I could drill a hole near the brushes such that I could seal it closed with a small rubber plug. Going forward you could then pull the plug and blast the brushes with CRC contact cleaner.

But yanking and disassembling the window motors is a big job. So I will resolve to the 18v lion battery method.

FWIW, the same situation applies to the rear seat reclining motors.

[eaton53]

Thereafter, you just have keep working them occasionally in order to maintain them in a working condition. If you leave them sit for a long time you will have to repeat the procedure.

My two displays that tell people "What This Is" hook over my back windows.
So, I accidentally take this advice every time I drive the car.

I also show folks what the back seats can do just for fun.

[Ed Lijewski]

The duct tape hack:

https://www.the-sun.com/motors/8413444/ ... ocked-out/

I saw an article recently with pic on police carrying the tool for carrying commercial glass panes which they use to open car windows when e.g. a dog or child is locked inside.

YMMV